I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. DensShield is one common brand. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. See the foam bench and the corners. A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. #3 This is a DIY site. Make sure the floor is level in the shower. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Tile Backer Board Breakdown - DIYTileGuy Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? Start by cleaning the cement board with a mineral oil soap; this will help reduce mold and mildew growth throughout the life of the shower. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. Kerdi Shower Pan and Cement Board Walls - DIY Home Improvement Forum To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! Find the website that's made specifically for you. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. Kerdi membrane over drywall in shower - qkfb.recidivazero.it It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. Can you put Kerdi membrane over cement board? Let's start! Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. It looks like you have Kerdi installed on the floor and not Kerdi Board. x 60 in. If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. Step 1: Measure the area. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. tripadvisor car rental tampa airport xnxx big tits; roommate questionnaire google form shadow of the dragon queen deluxe; cities where home prices are rising 2022 beachbody bodi block; mahogany tree seeds uses So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Cut the shower tray to size. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. Also - use a good thinset. We recommend our users to update the browser. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? Fixing that is not that easy though. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. Required fields are marked *. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. To line niche shelves, for instance. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. that's home depot homeowner installation method. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Step 2: Determine the room's center. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. Best substrate for kerdi membrane - nsbu.treviso-aug.it In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. How to install a kerdi membrane over cement backer board - Quora Spacers are the next step. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. Shower walls construction made easy with Kerdi-Board panels. - La Tuilerie Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Kerdi board vs. Membrane vs. Other for Shower - DIY Home Improvement Forum How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. The mortar does . Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. Anytime Mongo. Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. kerdi membrane over osb Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? This is the traditional tile backer. Step 7: Cut the Tile. What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. Hi David. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Hardibacker is a VERY "thirsty" material that sucks the moisture out of the mortar VERY quickly and I don't like it. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. What? Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. I trust it and have never had a callback. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. Why does drywall work in a Kerdi Shower? - Terry Love Plumbing Advice The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. . Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. 120 sq feet including the floor. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. Personally, I like standard drywall. Wedi vs. Kerdi Waterproof Membranes: Which Is Better? I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. How to prep a shower for tile with Schluter Kerdi - TwoFeetFirst But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. . You are wise to use a cement board. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. Thanks to all for the feedback. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. Other mistakes I was making early on:-over working the thinset. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. Any recommendations? The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board: What Are The Major Differences? The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. Step 3: Apply Thinset. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet, such as from a plumbing leak, or from infiltration on an exterior wall (as unlikely as that might be). Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. 3. x 96 in. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. :/. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. We sponge water onto the cement board. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Kerdi on shower curbs - JLC-Online Forums Like the example above. When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. What is the proper substrate to use on tiled wall? How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi.
